Andrew Gray ([info]shimgray) wrote,
@ 2009-06-14 23:46:00
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Entry tags:politics

European election notes, IV
So, the BNP. Let's drill down to what we all have hanging at the backs of our minds.

I've poked around a bit with the BNP voting figures, and there's nothing desperately leaping out at me. I did eventually try using only the voting figures for England (the BNP in Scotland and Wales is a strange beast, and skews things a bit), and comparing the BNP's vote share in any given region to their national vote share.

At first glance, this doesn't tell us anything interesting - they're much stronger in the Midlands and the North; this year, a voter in Yorkshire was 50% more likely to vote for the BNP than the national average, and one in Cornwall 40% less likely.

But, year on year, the most intriguing region is London. The BNP took 18,000 votes in London in 1999, 76,000 in 2004, and 86,000 in 2009. This seems at first glance like an inexorable increase from a very small amount, but it turns out that in 1999, a London voter was about a third more likely to cast a BNP vote than the national average. In 2004, they were about a quarter less likely, and that remained the same this year. The South-West had much the same trajectory; in 1999 a voter was 20% less likely than average to vote BNP, but is now 40% less likely.

The converse happened in the North-East, which went from 25% less likely 1999 to 35% more likely in 2009, and Yorkshire/Humber, which leapt from average in 1999 to 50% more likely in 2004, and remained there.

Again, I've no explanation for these. But there ought to be something worth looking at here - why did the BNP not pick up votes in London in the same way it did elsewhere? Can we figure that out, and replicate it?




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[info]amchau
2009-06-15 06:05 am UTC (link)
If you can tell me how to stop the BNP picking up any more votes in Yorkshire, please do. I sort of wish I'd known this before I decided to move to Leeds!

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[info]shimgray
2009-06-15 08:56 pm UTC (link)
High-velocity rifles.

(srsly, I wish I knew...)

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[info]tigerfort
2009-06-15 10:21 am UTC (link)
I'm tempted to suspect that it's because people don't take any notice of them initially. Once they've had some local impact, a portion of the non-bigots in the relevant area who otherwise wouldn't vote ("they're all the same anyway") realise that political parties aren't all identical and get to the polling booth. (Quite possibly on an 'anyone but the BNP' random-vote basis, but that's a start at least.)

Also possible is that it's simply more-aware younger people replacing octogenarians at the ballot box.

(Hypotheses only; I haven't done any looking. I'm just an optimist.)

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[info]shimgray
2009-06-15 08:58 pm UTC (link)
Mmm... but we have that high-low-low in London, and an exactly opposite low-high-high in the NE, so there's a counterexample. Hmm. I wonder if it's just a bad early organisation thing, meaning early results are pretty erratic and don't represent the underlying interest?

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[info]tigerfort
2009-06-16 07:54 am UTC (link)
Sorry, I wasn't very at all clear, was I. By "local impact", I meant actually winning seats or similar. IIRC, they won local council seats in London back in 1999, but haven't had any success in the NE until more recently. So their success in London got other people voting, while they hadn't scared people enough in the NE to have that effect. The NE areas are explained by the fact that if their vote-share drops below their national average in one area (London) then it has to be above their national average elsewhere. The regions can't all be below national average, after all.

The average is still too high, however. And as I say, I haven't done any checking.

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(Anonymous)
2009-06-16 10:58 am UTC (link)
The North-east, though, in 1999 was still a massively safe Labour region. Turnout was also lower in 1999 (19% compared with 30-35%)

2009: Lab 147k, Con 117k, Lib 104k, UKIP 91k, BNP 53k
2004: Lab 266k, Con 145k, Lib 139k, UKIP 95k, BNP 50k
1999: Lab 163k, Con 105k, Lib 52k, UKIP 34k, BNP 3.5k

I don't think, based on that, that the BNP can pick up any more votes in the NE region. Likewise, if Labour lose the next general election and get their act together reasonably fast in opposition, they'll probably pick up again quite easily, which will push the BNP percentage down if not the actual vote totals.

- CIM

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[info]subservient_son
2009-06-15 12:39 pm UTC (link)
Ok, so this is a purely speculative theory, but:

I once heard that people who live in very white areas are more likely to be concerned about immigration. London being a very diverse place, it would make sense for the BNP to do less well than elsewhere. So the fact that would either support or refute my theory is where precisely they are getting votes in Yorkshire. London and Bradford have similar white populations (74% and 71% respectively), whereas Leeds it's much higher (around 90%). So if BNP votes tend to be concentrated in cities with large white populations (Leeds rather than Bradford), it could explain the divergence.

Of course, since I would imagine virtually no non-white people would vote BNP, it could just be London's lower relative population that explains the difference.

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[info]shimgray
2009-06-15 09:15 pm UTC (link)
Drilling down to the next level is interesting, yeah. It'd be nice to know where in the North those votes are coming from.

Plain demographics don't seem to be the dominant factor; the counfounding example here would be somewhere like the South-West. A person there is least likely to vote BNP of any of the nine regions, but the population's almost 98% white.

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[info]doc_spod
2009-06-15 09:59 pm UTC (link)
I suspect money may play a large part in this. A lot of the areas where the BNP is doing well are economically-deprived (particularly in the recession) ex-heavy-industry and coincidentally have a large immigrant population. The local populace can either blame their situation on the changing industrial face of Britain (a difficult concept for many of them and hard to do anything about), or blame the immigrants and vote for the party that's promising to do something about it (with the misguided hope that the BNP will provide more jobs in the process). The South West is deprived but has no immigrant population to blame, and so blames London for it; a vote for the BNP won't make a difference there. Similarly Wales and Scotland blame London and so tend to vote for their own Nationalist parties.

London is probably the exception despite having a large non-white population because bits of it are doing well (and always have done) and bits are doing badly (and always have done), and these bits are all intermingled. There simply hasn't been the radical economic shift that there has been in previously industrialised parts of the country, where it's easier to believe that someone came and took your job than it is to accept that the jobs just stopped existing. Since the industrial decline has been happening gradually since the 80s and non-white population gradually increasing over the same period it's easy to see how this association could come about.

The solution may well be to invest in the areas where the BNP is doing well; during the boom years this was probably what made the North-East and Yorkshire less likely to vote BNP since their lot was finally improving - with the downturn they were probably the first to suffer and the least able to take the hit.

why did the BNP not pick up votes in London in the same way it did elsewhere?

It may just be that the downturn hasn't hit London as hard as other parts of the country yet. If things continue downhill then London may follow suit.

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[info]doc_spod
2009-06-15 10:29 pm UTC (link)
Can a five-fold increase in London really be described as not picking up votes? This is still a sign of a pretty disaffected electorate; the fact that it went down compared with the national average (which I'm guessing increased 8-fold?) just means that other areas are even more disaffected rather than that anything particularly good is happening in London. Were there any areas with a less than five-fold increase in votes, and if so wouldn't it be more useful to examine how they achieved this?

An alternative view is that the 1999 figures suggest that London has a hard core of racist bigots whom we won't be able to change whereas the rest of the country is not intrinsically racist but is reacting to something (which can be corrected). In this case London may not be the best role model.

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[info]shimgray
2009-06-15 10:48 pm UTC (link)
Oh, I agree they're picking up votes left right and centre... well, maybe right and right, but anyhow. The question is really just, why were they not as good at picking them up there, & is that a London-specific thing or can we replicate it?

wrt your question, the lowest increases in actual votes cast, 1999 to 2004, were London, the South West, and the South East, all about four or five times 1999. (Because of increased turnout, this translates to two or three times increase in vote share)

The "hard-core" model is interesting - I think we'd need another election or two to be sure... but, hmm, could we look at the vote-share in the local & mayoral elections? The BNP's run in those in London before, and they might give some hints.

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[info]doc_spod
2009-06-16 07:39 pm UTC (link)
In that case, my original post may apply more, ie the South West is lagging because it has no non-whites to blame for its circumstances and circumstances in London haven't changed as much yet as in the rest of he country.

It may also be that people were exercising protest votes without understanding the voting system. With the first-past-the-post system we're used to, neither the absolute nor relative increase in votes would have had any effect, giving an extreme (yet safe) wake-up call to the main parties. Under the European Election system, the number of votes a party receives is divided by the number of seats they already have, plus one. Hence every for the BNP counted in its entirety but one for mainstream parties (esp Conservatives with a lot of seats already) got diluted, eg if you already have four MEPs in that region your number of votes is divided by five. Under this system protest votes become extremely dangerous and I bet a lot of people didn't know (and still don't).

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[info]shimgray
2009-06-16 08:54 pm UTC (link)
Misunderstood protest votes counts for a lot, I feel; it also handily explains last time out, when people also had a lot to protest about.

As regards ethnic or immigration-linked demographics, see graph in next post - at least at the regional level, it seems there's no correlation worth speaking of.

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